“The Pillars of the Earth”: The Evolution of Spanish Musical Theatre. An exclusive interview with Iván Macías. Part I

In November 2024, the world premiere of a new musical by composer Iván Macías, The Pillars of the Earth, took place at the Teatro EDP Gran Vía in Madrid. The book, written by Félix Amador, is based on the bestselling novel by Ken Follett of the same name.

Americans justly consider Broadway musicals – to be the acme in the musical theatre genre. When visiting other countries and various cities around the world, they notice mainly ads for the very musicals they’ve seen at home. Thus, the development of musical theatre in other parts of the globe – for many is terra incognita. While the interest in musicals in German and French-speaking countries is growing, this type of theatrical art is quickly developing in Spain. Various productions of American and English musicals adapted into Spanish, first appeared in Spain in the 70s. The original Spanish musicals appeared only in the 80s. The main centers of musical culture in Spain are Madrid and Barcelona. Gran Via in Madrid is often referred to as Spanish Broadway, not only due to its “American” architectural style but also because of the concentration of theatres that host famous musicals. The repertoire is updated quite often, which invariably attracts viewers who are happy to come to these colorful musical shows.

   One of the very first Spanish original musicals was Carmen, Carmen (1988), based on the opera by Georges Bizet, in turn, based on the novel of the same name by Prosper Mérimée. Its authors, playwright Antonio Gala and composer Juan Cánovas, “killed” Carmen four times, each time at the hands of a new antagonist. She was resurrected four times. The action begins and ends in prison. Unlike the opera, the premiere of which was a failure in Paris in 1875, the musical was received with enthusiasm. The audience liked how the characters parodied the peculiarities of the Spanish temperament and adored the references to national traditional entertainment, such as bullfighting.

The 90s turned out to be not very rich in premieres. Since the beginning of the century, new jukebox musicals have been appearing and becoming popular one after another: El Otro Lado de la Cama/ The Other Side of the Bed (2002), based on the Spanish pop music of the Golden Age, and Hoy No Me Puedo Levantar/Today I Can’t Get Up (2005) with music and lyrics by Nacho Cano and José María Cano, former members of the band Mecano, based on the band’s greatest hits of the 80s, Los 40 el Musical (2009), based on a collection of top 40 Spanish songs. In about ten years, the vector moved toward “more serious” shows – The Musical Sancho Panza, Germinal, Malinche, etc.

   The leading role in the development of dramatic musicals in Spain belongs to the composer Iván Macías. And if Germinal (2016) can be regarded as “beginner’s luck,” his second musical El Médico/The Physician (2018), book and lyrics by Félix Amador, turned into a super successful Spanish project. It is based on the novel of the same name by the American novelist Noah Gordon (1986), which, having appeared in the late nineties in Spanish translation, entered the Top 10 of the “most beloved books of all time” in Spain. The film adaptation of the novel by German cinematographers (directed by Philipp Stölzl) was released in 2013 and became successful, winning several prestigious awards against the background of the unconditional financial success of the initial weeks of the film’s distribution. It is not surprising that the theatrical debut of the work in the form of a musical went as well as possible, being planted on prepared soil. The musical had a two-year run in Madrid, after which it went on a long-awaited national tour. Two translated productions have already been made – for Czech and German audiences. There is interest in the production shown by other European countries, for example, Austria and the Netherlands. The Physician assigned the composer the title of a “musical guru.” While formally similar to Broadway shows, musically his works are closer to Andrew Lloyd Webber’s pop operas.

Two subsequent musicals by Iván Macías and Félix Amador (book and lyrics), El Tiempo Entre Costuras / The Time in Between (2021) and La Historia Interminable / The NeverEnding Story (2022) showed the creative duo’s ability to deal with the complex works of fiction by modern authors. Thus, taking as the basis for the first abovementioned musical the well-known novel The Time in Between (2009) by the Spanish writer María Dueñas, lyricist Félix Amador defined his task in one of his interviews: “It is a huge responsibility because you have to be faithful to the story and to the writer, faithful to the readers who have read the book – they want to find their story here.” However, not only the careful attitude to the story told in the novel about the demons of the Vietnam War, but also the desire to reflect many cultures as adequately as possible, received brilliant development in the musical with the help of various musical styles, vocal performances, and characters of the heroes. The truthfulness of the story, the recognition of the characters, the authenticity of costumes, and other technical elements of the show did their job: the audience “believes” everything happening and takes it to heart.

The musical The NeverEnding Story, written by the same authors, which followed a year later, is based on another famous novel of the same name by the German writer Michael Ende. The directors undertook a very difficult task: to tell a story in musical language, the events of which take place in two disjointed worlds – Reality and the imaginary world of Fantasia. Because three film adaptations of the book have been shot since the early 80s – The NeverEnding Story 1, The NeverEnding Story 2, and The NeverEnding Story 3, as well as the television series Tales from the NeverEnding Story of fifteen episodes, the production requirements increased and the stakes were high: the characters were already known to a wide range of readers and viewers, and the Luck Dragon – Falkor has become a favorite of children for at least two generations. The audience appreciated the production, considering the task of conveying a favorite story with the help of song, dance, and technical solutions, complete.

    Iván Macías kindly agreed to talk about his most successful musicals and new projects several months before the premiere of The Pillars of the Earth Musical.

Iván Macías/ Photo Credit by Pablo Martínez

Lisa Monde: Let’s begin in chronological order, with the musical The Physician. This project started as a symphonic tour; you had a certain cast. But then when the time came for the full production of a musical you gathered a different cast. Why is that? Did you want to have a different cast for the production? You didn’t want to bring the same people who did the symphonic tour into the show later?

Iván Macías: Between the symphonic presentation and the first set of performances of El Médico/ The Physician in Madrid, we kept about 80% of the same people in the cast. There wasn’t much time in between. Theatre productions work differently in Spain, not like on Broadway – because on Broadway you don’t have seasons. There, a musical opens and finishes, but runs for a long time. And we have seasons here that run short.  So, we have many casting calls throughout the year for many productions and we have a lot of cast members moving from one season into the next.

LM: Why did you choose the novel The Physician to become the literary basis for your musical? What criteria do you use when choosing a literary work for your productions?

IM: At the beginning, we look for a story we want to tell; a big story with great characters. For example, with The Physician – it was about the mix of the three cultures. It’s also our own story because Spain is maybe one of the most influenced countries in the world in that way, we’ve had three different cultures living in our country throughout many centuries. The Physician is a very famous novel, in Spain it was especially popular. The story depicts a very interesting moment in history: how people were gaining knowledge in Europe, where there was no education. We arrived in Persia and discovered rich cultures. Speaking of The Pillars of the Earth – it’s one of the biggest novels and stories in the world. The character of Aliena is one of my most favorite characters in the history of recent literature. And Ken Follett – he’s not just a writer, he represents a brand at this point. He is one of the greatest novelists and he is great at creating new stories and incredible characters. With TheNeverEnding Story – it was very interesting to make a musical based on the book and not the film. Not everyone was happy with the film The NeverEnding Story, so we decided to work with the source. Choosing a proper work of literature is not an easy process for us. We have a whole team – we sit down together, brainstorm, and eventually decide what our next show should be based on.  Another book that we have turned into a musical and which is about to have its premiere is The Time in Between. It is a wonderful story by María Dueñas. It has had a lot of success in Spain.

Musical The Physician, Spain/ Original Cast/ Photo Credit by Pablo Martínez

LM: It is never easy working with a story that everyone knows and has already seen. Even more so when you’re dealing with The NeverEnding Story – we’ve all seen the movies and the iconic characters – many people have a set image in their minds, we all grew up with them. But you’re putting the beloved characters on stage and recreating them differently – making them deeper emotionally, more complicated. What is your approach to such a project?

IM: I think that my work is all about honesty. I’m my own harshest critic. I know that when spectators go to the theatre, it is because they want to get excited about what they are about to see. When the audience is moved by the show – it matters. When working on the story, I need to read the book many times, and really dive into it. I always try to understand the feeling of the message of the book, and its subtexts, and get into the emotion behind the book. From then on, I am building a musical that will sustain the emotion of the whole piece. I am telling the story through music.

LM: What is it like – telling a story through the language of music?

IM: You can get much more from the music – music is faster than letters, faster than words. It’s very funny when you look at it from the outside… When dialogues are telling one story and the music is already telling you something different, for me – it is very exciting to find various feelings that are perhaps controversial and take the listener in opposite directions.

LM: Well, as they say, music can tell more than words.  That’s why in musical theatre we “sing our feelings,” right? There is so much going on that we cannot speak anymore and only music can capture our emotions. Now, going back to The Physician: you’ve mentioned already that you like the fact that you’re dealing with different cultures in the story. So, how do you work on creating music that would sound as if it’s from a different time, from a different culture? I can hear it in The Physician– it’s a combination of medieval music and Spanish music, but also some parts sound very contemporary. Do you often play with different music styles and music genres?

IM: I always try to find the right “code” for the music and musical dramaturgy and to mix all those elements. I’m choosing from many different ingredients that I mix.  But the music can’t be absolutely realistic, as if it comes from medieval times, in such shows as The Physician.

Musical The Physician, Spain/ Photo Credit by Pablo Martínez

LM: Meaning, you’re creating stylized music?

IM: Yes. Lorenzo Caprile, who is one of the major costume designers in Europe, during the first season of The Physician in Madrid, said to our director: “You don’t want “realistic!” You want something that the audience thinks is realistic.”  Otherwise, you would have people performing naked on stage – in medieval times some of our characters wouldn’t have had any clothes to wear. (Laughs)

LM: You have to adjust certain things, of course: costumes, language. Is it the same with the music that you write to match the story?

IM: In The Physician, you can hear some music that sounds medieval or Jewish, or even Persian. I did a lot of research on the music of medieval times, and their scales. If you had a meeting with the musical expert of the music of the 11^th century, he would have told you that it’s not realistic, but we make the music for the contemporary audience. So, we need to take into consideration what our audience recognizes and is conditioned by, what they associate with, when it comes to the overall style of the music that we write. In movies, they’ve done a great job of creating “believable” stylized music, and I believe that my musical approach is very cinematic.

         The author of the novel – Noah Gordon, who actively took part in the creation of the musical, upon seeing the premiere, confirmed that “the emotion of the novel has managed to transfer to the music,” which allowed readers to gain a new experience of perceiving their favorite characters and relive their adventures in a new way. Musical The Physician ran for two sold-out seasons in Madrid, after which the national tour was launched, cut short by the Covid-19 Pandemic. In 2022 the musical was shown outside Spain for the very first time – it was presented in the Czech Republic, where it was warmly received by the audience. The Physician returned to Barcelona this fall, and the tour across Spain successfully continues.

The NeverEnding Story Musical, Spain/ Photo Courtesy of Beon Entertainment

Lisa Monde: Please tell me more about The NeverEnding Story Musical.  Since I’m sure, all our readers know this story very well. Why did you choose this story? What was the process itself like – working with the novel, the movies?

Iván Macías: Why did I choose The NeverEnding Story? First of all, because of the film. It’s considered to be an iconic film in Spain, not only in Spain but in the whole world. It’s the 80s icon; I was born in 1982, and at home during Christmas holidays we used to watch The NeverEnding Story all the time. Back then we were children. But the story is relevant and touching no matter how old we are. There’s only one step from “a famous film” to “a transcendental film,” and it happened not because of the quality of the film, but due to its message. To me, the book is very special, for the 80s generation. All these elements came together for us to create a different musical. Different from other musicals that we did before.

LM: I saw the videos of The NeverEnding Story Musical, it was certainly staged in an unusual way. So, please tell me a bit more about how it all came to be.

IM: When we set to work, it was very interesting for me to work on the score. We were basically reimagining the 80s. Because we remember the 80s not like they were, but rather how we want to remember those years.

LM: Would you say, we tend to romanticize the 80s?

IM: Yes. We wanted to take that point of view of how the 80s were as we remember them, how people want to remember the 80s and “adapt” it for the audience of today.

LM: How do you achieve that “adapting” in music?

IM: When creating the music score, we used some remastered synthesizers from the 80s. We came to the recording studio looking for the sounds of the 80s. But of course, at the same time, we were working with the sound quality of 2023. People come to see the show, they hear the synthesizers and immediately feel like they have traveled back in time, to the 1980s. But really, they are witnessing all the power of 2023.

LM: Does the musical feature some part of the story that wasn’t shown in the movie?

IM: Yes. The second part of the book was not used in the film. Bastian’s journey. It carries an important message for the children and society of today. Many children come to the show and leave crying because it moved them so much – they can compare their journey to Bastian’s. When we worked on The NeverEnding Story, we constructed a map on the wall where we tried to connect all the characters and storylines with the help of threads – like you would in a murder mystery show… It looked like a crime investigation scene here…. (laughs).

The NeverEnding Story Musical, Spain/ Photo Courtesy of Beon Entertainment

LM: You often state that your main goal is to convey emotions through music… What do you mean by that?

IM: My way of composing music is based on what I call “the lines of emotion,” which is a process of trying to extract an emotion from the book, from the story. I search for a “pure emotion,” as I call it, and transform it into music. Because you can’t imagine or dream what you haven’t lived through. It’s like a game of creation. So, with The NeverEnding Story, we were playing with the concept that had all the elements already – both in the world of Fantasia and the real world of Bastian. Music is faster than words. The spectators hear the music and as the show develops in front of their eyes, the music starts to make more and more sense. They follow the music, it moves them. And we added one character that is essential in the novel – Bastian’s mother. The best song in the musical belongs to Bastian’s mother. In the novel they only mention her in the third person. To us, it was essential to explain why the mother was so important in the story of the musical as well as in Bastian’s life.

LM: That’s very interesting. I love it when the characters that were not paid too much attention to originally, come to life and end up on stage.

IM: Those who have read the book are very happy with the show – because they know the real message of Michael Ende’s novel, and it is the musical’s message as well. I remember from my childhood – how when the story came to an end the dragon Falkor went against the bullies! For me, that was where the movie ended but the message of the novel is completely different, much more beautiful, and powerful, especially today when bullying is a huge issue in our society.

LM: I love that scene, too. The moment you mentioned it, I envisioned it immediately. I remember the movie always made me cry at one point or another.

IM: If you watch the musical, I will say especially the moment between Bastian and his mother – it will break your heart, it’s very touching.

   The NeverEnding Story became the second most popular Spanish musical after The Physician. Experts even agreed that this theatrical embodiment of the literary basis managed to show the hidden meanings inherent in Michael Ende’s novel even better than cinematic attempts. In all fairness, it is worth noting that no other musical has been awarded such an honor just yet.

The Pillars of the Earth Musical, Spain/ Original Cast/ Photo Courtesy of Beon Entertainment.

LM: In the musical The Pillars of the Earth once again you’ve turned to a literary bestseller. Why did you choose this particular historical novel?

IM: Currently, we have our “power of four:” The Physician, The NeverEnding Story, The Pillars of the Earth, and, of course, The Time in Between. All based on very famous novels. I believe The Pillars of the Earth to be one of the greatest novels in world literature. It can be compared to Les Misérables by Victor Hugo. Ken Follett, the author of The Pillars of the Earth, said to me when I approached him: “I like your work. You can write a musical based on my work.”

LM: I interviewed Ken Follett, and he was very excited about your musical. He had great and very positive expectations, and was planning on being present at the big premiere.

IM:  Ken Follett fell in love with my music. And now my name stands next to Ken Follett’s name. And I am so grateful. We know it’s not easy to put your shows out on the American and English markets. But we do our best to produce shows of the highest level. When working with such famous writers as Ken Follett – we have no other choice! So, one day I’m sure our shows will reach England and the US…

LM: I do not doubt it. Now, in The Pillars of the Earth – there are so many characters, there’s so much going on, so much history. The cathedral, building of the cathedral, is one of the central pieces of The Pillars of the Earth puzzle. And my question is: do you know the famous musical Notre Dame de Paris which was around for quite some time and came back to New York in 2022? I love Notre Dame de Paris. In your musical, is the cathedral also one of the central characters?

IM: Yes. It can’t be otherwise. The audience has to feel like they are inside a cathedral. Because it’s not just one cathedral, it’s the fire that destroyed the first cathedral, the second cathedral that collapsed… And the huge cathedral which appears at the end – so people can say “What a beautiful cathedral!” Composing music is very much like building a cathedral. People want to see a cathedral and they will see it. I  work with Beon Entertainment – an incredible Spanish production company, committed to bringing the original shows of this nature to life. Beon Entertainment is led by the CEO and executive producer Dario Regattieri. We make a wonderful team!’

LM: How do you envision the future destiny of your new musical?

IM: We hope that The Pillars of the Earth will run for many years, in Madrid as well, because it’s a very powerful show.

    The Pillars of the Earth. The Musical – the spectacle that lasts for more than 3 hours, keeps the audience in constant suspense and on their toes. All events, happening on stage, look as historically accurate as possible thanks to the immersive component, magnificent costumes and props, and a fantastic set. The actors, playing the leading roles: Tom Builder (Julio Morales), Ellen (Noemi Mazoy), Jack Jackson (Javier Ariano), Aliena de Shiring (Teresa Ferrer), Matilde (Noelia Cano), Waleran Bigod (Javier Ibarz), Philip (Gustavo Rodrígez) and others, managed to create characters different from the ones in the book and the tv adaptation. And that is one of the greatest successes and achievements of the show. In terms of vocals, some heterogeneity can be noted: along with beautiful, powerful, and well-trained voices, once in a while you could catch some disappointing vocals as well. Because we see more than twenty characters on stage (not counting the ensemble), at times it is difficult to remember who is who and recall their storyline. It is also quite confusing to see adult actors playing children’s roles. However, the main plot lines of the novel were preserved and Ken Follett, having seen the show commented: “My heart is touched.” Like many in the audience, Ken’s eyes filled with tears during the song Silencio/Silence performed by Elizabeth, Aliena, Ellen, and Matilde. In this most memorable musical number, each woman sings about a painful subject: abuse from a man, loneliness, instability, and despair, which cannot leave anyone present indifferent. The second song that fully deserves the title of a hit is the duet of Jack and Aliena – Una Ilusión/An Illusion.

Overall, the musical turned out to be very emotional, as Iván Macías set a task for himself to tell the story through the characters’ feelings and succeeded.  The large immersive component, determined primarily by the scenographic solutions (the set, 3D video projections, and 4D technology) added a sense of involvement in what was happening in the story.

LM: How do you feel about the musical The Pillars of the Earth now that it’s up and running?

IM: We are on our way towards excellence. We’re still working on the show.

     After the premiere, the performers shared how difficult it was for them to learn their parts, and how hard it was to perform in such a long action-packed show, but they are all big fans of the musical, working passionately for the common cause of bringing the greatest success to The Pillars of the Earth, and therefore they are ready for revisions, additional rehearsals in order to achieve the effect of “everything runs like clockwork.”

Obviously, it is the composer Iván Macías who is the number one figure in the development of Spanish musical theatre. Popular plots, of which no one gets tired, professional mastery of all expressive means characteristic of the musicals – songs as part of the narrative, movement, dance, acting as the driving force of the plot, and the widespread use of ensemble scenes allow us to hope that this is the trend in the further development of the Spanish musical.

Which one out of the four musicals – The Physician, The Time in Between, The NeverEnding Story, or The Pillars of the Earth – makes it to Broadway first, is currently hard to guess. But it is clear, that sooner rather than later, American spectators will get acquainted with creative works by composer Iván Macías and lyricist Félix Amador. “I think the American audience will like what we do because I take my inspiration from Broadway musicals. But I also add the powerful Spanish culture and sound to it,” – believes Iván Macías.