Ellen Pearlman interviewed by Ivo Marais
To read PART I of this interview, go to this link.
I: Visual AI is at the heart of this piece, almost like a performer itself. How did you envision AI’s role in manifesting the intangible—epigenetic trauma—on a visual plane? What were your considerations in bringing an algorithm to life as a conduit for ancestral pain?”
E: This is a correct assessment that visual AI is at the heart of this piece as its own performer. I exposed the underlying flaws in multilingual algorithmic rendering to show how AI produces information on the visual level. This is a tremendous problem for representation of visual culture. It typically whitewashes visual imagery into a homogenous and wildly incorrect cultural representations.
Left English prompt of archival footage “They dug them up”, right Yiddish AI text to image and image to image comparisons. C. Ellen Pearlman.
I: The avant-garde thrives on symbols and abstraction. Are there motifs that AI creates that embody or distort the concept of inherited trauma in ways that challenge traditional visual storytelling?”
E: The visual motifs of LILM are developed through computer vision pattern recognition. What pattern recognition means on the simplest level is the outline of something. If it is a square, it has four lines that connect, if it’s a triangle there are three lines that connect. These are the underpinnings of edge recognition. These shape recognition patterns are cross matched against images that superficially match the basic outline level but in reality, have nothing to do with it. The absurdity of these attempts becomes apparent to the individuals watching and experiencing the performance as well as those who just view the actual video when it is decoupled from the performance.
Multilingual Interpretation and Cultural Nuance
I: Incorporating multiple languages to interpret trauma adds a layer of cultural richness and complexity. How did you choose which languages to include, and how does this multilingual approach deepen the audience’s understanding of diaspora and inherited trauma?”
E: I’m going to answer this in a backward way. First is I think the audience’s understanding of diaspora and its subsequent multilingual approach was very direct as they watched the film unfold. When the film ended there was a stunned silence, and after the Q&A a number of audience members stayed over an hour to discuss what they had just seen. That is when I understood its impact. I don’t believe it layers a level of cultural richness and complexity but instead shatters cultural richness and complexity. I chose the languages both because I wanted a wide geographic representation of different cultures and also because these languages, except for Xhosa had their own cursive scripts, meaning the scripts did not resemble the English alphabet. I thought that was a really great way to represent epigenetic trauma.
I: The themes in Language Is Leaving Me are visceral and potentially triggering. How do you approach guiding the audience through these experiences in a way that’s both impactful and respectful?”
E: LILM is visceral and potentially triggering depending on where it is viewed and by whom. I issue what is commonly referred to in the US as trigger warnings. I guide the audience through the experience by presenting a talk beforehand explaining how my research led to my particular way of putting the imagery together.
I: With this piece, you’re navigating the delicate territory between human expression and machine interpretation. How did you manage the experimental nature of the technology, ensuring it served as a co-creator rather than simply a tool in your avant-garde exploration?
E: The issue of co-creation during a performance is one that I work with in all my operas. The co-creation takes place through the use of biometrics or the human animal’s responsiveness to a particular situation measured biometrically. I’ve used brainwaves in the past but for LILM I used facial muscles.
07.10.2023 At the Copernicus Science Center (Warsaw) – Transformations Festival. Artist talk, panel with Ellen Pearlman.
Audience Member as Sonic Conductor
I: How did you approach the technical and artistic challenge of balancing AI visuals with an EMG-powered soundtrack? Did you find that this combination created any unforeseen synergies?”
E: Having worked previously with brain biometrics, visuals, sonic environments, movement, and haptics, I experience both difficulties and breakthroughs using emerging technologies. It is a question of restraint, timing, and rhythm. What I mean by restraint is not throwing in too much activity. Timing means letting space and non-activity enter the sonic and visual environment when possible. Rhythm is of the sonic environment emerges alongside the rhythm of the spoken word libretto. This is a very subtle process that needs a lot of work on the back end so that it appears seamless and random to the audience but is actually a pre-tested randomness within certain parameters.
Intersection of AI and Cultural Trauma
I: Considering the growing role of AI in analyzing and representing human experiences, do you believe that AI can become a medium for healing or processing trauma for marginalized or diasporic communities?
E: I do not believe AI can help marginalized communities process trauma. I do believe AI can be used as a tool by licensed and well trained therapists to help communities process trauma but am deeply skeptical of just an AI therapist. It is important to note that the first AI natural language chatbot Eliza was developed between 1964 and 1967 by Dr. Joseph Weizenbaum at MIT. What was so amazing about Eliza is every single person who typed a question on a computer keyboard to the chatbot knew perfectly well that it was nothing more than machine code. Still, they would confide their deepest secrets to Eliza. At one point Weizenbaum’s secretary asked him to leave the room so she could continue a therapeutic intervention with Eliza. If people know they’re working with something completely fake and made up, yet that fake and made up thing is very responsive to their needs then they will jump through their chasm of disbelief and behave as though it is a real entity. That is still true today.
Image generated from images of skulls – letters appeared spontaneously. C. Ellen Pearlman.
I: The premiere of LILM took place on October 7, 2023, the same day the war erupted in the Middle East. Given the themes of inherited trauma, what was it like to see Language Is Leaving Me debut on such a day? How do you feel the work resonates differently in light of such current events?”
E: No one had any idea that day as the film/performance was unfolding at the Copernicus Science Center in Warsaw, Poland that the war in the Middle East was simultaneously occurring. There was no awareness about this synchronicity. It is overwhelming knowing human behavior repeats cycles of embedded ancient hatred and violence.
I: How do you hope that people from different backgrounds might find resonance in Language Is Leaving Me? Do you see this work as a bridge that connects diasporic communities through their shared legacies of survival?”
E: I don’t know if it is a bridge but rather a cautionary tale informing the general public that underneath the gee whiz magic of AI is a very powerful but flawed engine built by humans.
I: What role do you feel contemporary artists have in preserving and communicating the legacies of ancestral trauma? How do you see your work contributing to this ongoing conversation?”
E: I don’t think that contemporary artists have to communicate legacies of ancestral trauma, they can communicate whatever they want to. My work is at the crossroads between theatrical performance, visual AI, and biometrics. It is my hope to produce a resonant and important body of work that enters the cultural discourse investigating these troubling developments in visual and other types of artificial intelligence
I: Do you have any thoughts on how art might serve as a means of healing or understanding? How do you hope LILM serves as a catalyst for resilience and shared reflection?
E: There are many developments in the field of trauma studies including a new book titled “Trauma Informed Place Making”, edited by Anita McCowen and Cara Courage that I contributed a chapter to. It is an in-depth look at how physical place or location induces meaning about trauma. The book shares how healing can occur at site-specific performance locations and installations, as well as the social justice aspects involving community networking and workshops. I can’t speak for other people’s traumas I can only hope to uncover what I have to say about mine in hopes that it will contribute to the discussion of creative art and trauma studies.
07.10.2023 At the Copernicus Science Center (Warsaw) – Transformations Festival. Artist talk, panel with Ellen Pearlman.
Challenges and Innovations
I: What were some of the biggest challenges you faced while working on this project? How did you overcome them?”
E: The biggest challenges are ones that most artists face which is finding enough resources and time to develop the work. Technically it was figuring out how to create an AI cinema piece because when I started there was basically no real AI Cinema and suddenly there’s a lot of AI cinema. I worked with departments of engineering and mathematics to access the programming expertise I needed. It took many years, but I succeeded.
I: You’re constantly exploring new themes and pushing the boundaries of technology and art. Are there any new projects you’re excited about, or technologies you’re eager to experiment with?
E: I’m certainly excited about expanding LILM into new models dealing with the transition from memory into imagination into reality and reality dissolving into 3D space. I know that sounds vague and strange but I’m working on a workflow pipeline to do that. It involves the use of computers with high-end graphics cards that are water cooled. I am about a third of the way there right now.
I: Where do you see the field of new media art, AI, biometrics and performance heading in the next few years?
E: We are in the midst of a convergence to the age of artificial intelligence, a transition as important as the transition from the agricultural to the industrial and the industrial to the nuclear age. It’s difficult to be aware on a day-to-day basis that you’re in the midst of such a transition. The other aspect of this transformation is coupled with the dawn of quantum computing. Quantum computing will evolve to become the back engine of AI, though there are various nuclear facilities currently being commissioned by big tech companies to power the current transition. I’m not knowledgeable enough to talk about what is going to power quantum computing. I don’t know if it’s going to be hydrogen fission or if it’s going to be nuclear, I have no idea and I’m not privy to those conversations, but I think this is where we are heading if we are to survive as a planet and a species.
I: Finally, as someone who has witnessed and shaped the development of AI in the arts and performance, what advice would you give to emerging artists who are interested in exploring new media and integrating it into their performative practices?
E: Don’t be tied to any technology because as soon as you master one modality it changes. You have to be constantly picking up new skill sets. It’s a constant battle to get access to these new technologies because they are very expensive, Open source software is a good start but in order to use some of these open source tools you need servers or access to servers that are incredibly powerful and access to types of tech that are not commonly in use for the general public. Yes, there are innovations with smartphones and artist collectives, but the key is to figuring out how to get your hands on the tech and use it for what you want to use it for not what for the vendor or the organization wants you to use it for. It is difficult to retain your own voice with a critical stance instead of creating works that just pleases the general public that resemble high tech lava lamps. That is a huge obstacle because many presenting outlets for don’t want to take a chance or present anything that smacks of controversy.
Ellen Pearlman is a new media artist, curator, critic and educator, currently a Visiting Research Scholar at the NYU Tandon School of Engineering @ the Brooklyn Navy Yard. Previously she was a Fulbright Scholar at the Department of Mathematics and Informatics at the University of Warsaw, Poland, and a Research Fellow at MIT.
Ivo Marais: In preparing for this interview, I manifest as a completely fictional performance critic, scholar and writer from a vaguely continental country. I reside in Chat GPT land and went through a number of iterations to formulate my questions coherently. However, my bio was indeed written by a human, without any help from myself as an AI.
This post was written by the author in their personal capacity.The opinions expressed in this article are the author’s own and do not reflect the view of The Theatre Times, their staff or collaborators.
